The Children of John Neil and Mary Anne Chrystal

Mary Anne Neil b 16 Jul 1881 at 108 Rutherglen Road, Gorbals

Birth of Mary Anne Neil 16 Jul 1881

This shows that Mary Ann Neil was born at 4:30am on 16 July 1881 at 108 Rutherglen Loan, Glasgow. She is the daughter of John Neil, Contractor’s Carter, and Mary Anne Neil ms Chrystal. The parents are said to have married Oct 2 1880 in Gorbals District, Glasgow. John Neil was the informant (present) and made his mark. It was registered 25 Jul 1881 at Glasgow. I also found a baptism for Mary Ann.

Baptism of Mary Ann Neil 1 Aug 1881

The sponsor at this baptism is Cath Brannan. Brannan was the maiden name of Mary-Ann’s great-grandmother. Regarding the address given in the statutory registration, 108 Rutherglen Loan is where Mary Ann Neil or Chrystal’s parents (Timothy Chrystal and Mary McFillan) lived with Mary Ann’s sister Elizabeth at the taking of the 1881 Census so it looks like Mary Anne delivered her first child in her own mother’s home – a quite common practice for first children.

Our next meeting with Mary Anne is at the 1891 Census but she is not found at her parent’s home at 31 Salisbury Street; we only find her siblings, Sarah (8), Agnes (3) and John (1). There had been another child, Elizabeth Chrystal Neil, but she died in 1888 aged two years and one month. She died of burns to the head and body – of which more below when I relate the events of her short life.

Instead Mary Ann is found at 7 Muirhead Street, the family home of her maternal grandparents, Timothy Chrystal and Mary Chrystal and their 25-year-old daughter, Eliza. As we saw above, Mary Anne was registered as being born in the home of the Chrystals in 1881. It may just have been a coincidence that she was at their home at the taking of the census.

Mary Ann Neil at the 1901 Census – 21 Salisbury Street, Gorbals, Glasgow

Name	Rel	Cond	Sex	Age	Occupation	Status	Where Born
John Neil	Head	M	M	39	Coal Merchant's Labourer	Worker	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Mary A Neil	Wife	M	F	39			Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Mary Neil	Daughter	S	F	19	Tobacco Spinner	Worker	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Sarah Neil	Daughter	S	F	17	Handkerchief Hemmer	Worker	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Agnes Neil	Daughter	S	F	13	Scholar		Glasgow, Lanarkshire
John Neil	Son	S	M	10	Scholar		Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Timothy Neil	Son	S	M	8	Scholar		Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Lizzie Neil	Daughter	S	F	6			Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Susan Neil	Daughter	S	F	3			Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Charles Neil	Son	S	M	1			Glasgow, Lanarkshire

1901 Census Return for 21 Salisbury Street, Gorbals, Glasgow. (Scotland’s People 1901 Census England, Wales & Scotland Census: NEIL, JOHN (Census 644/12 16/ 3) Page 3 of 30)

At this census the family are living at 21 Salisbury Street, Glasgow. John is now a 39-year-old coal-merchant’s labourer. Mary Anne, his wife, is also aged 39. Mary Anne is back with the family, and she is described as a tobacco spinner. Other children in the household are Sarah, aged 17, who is a handkerchief hemmer, Agnes (13) and John (10) are both scholars and, since the last census, new children have been added to the family – Timothy Chrystal Neil ( aged 8 – b. 13 Jan 1893), Elizabeth Chrystal Neil (aged 6 – b. 25 Jun 1895), Susan Logan Neil (aged 3 – b. 12 Oct 1897) and Charles (aged 1 – b. 30 Apr 1901). Timothy is a scholar, but the others are too young for school.

This census saw John Neil’s family at its most complete; by the next census only the youngest two children remained, and they and their parents’ lived as boarders in the household of Alex Kemp, a blacksmith. The years after the 1901 Census saw the family split off to form their own families. Mary Anne Neil was no exception; six years after the 1901 Census was taken, she married.

Marriage of Mary Ann Neil and John Rogan 1 April 1907, St Luke’s Church, Glasgow

I do not know anything more about John Rogan’s parents or siblings at the moment. It is possible that John Rogan married Rose Cullen in 1872 in the registration district of Manorhamilton in the county of Leitrim in Ireland. I have looked for their son, John, in the 1901 Census returns but no obvious candidate emerged. Both John Rogan and Mary Ann are said to usually live at 174 Govan Street.

We can see the family at the taking of the 1911 Census when the family lived at 129 Coburg Road, Gorbals.

The Rogans at the 1911 Census – 129 Coburg Street, Gorbals, Glasgow

Census Scotland 1911 Place: 135 Coburg Street, Gorbals, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland

Name	No in house	Rel	Sex	Age	Condition	Years	Chd Born	Chd Living	Occupation	Industry
John Rogan	3	Head	M	34	M				Gas Worker	Corporation
Mary Rogan		Wife	F	29	M	5	2	2
Mary Rogan		Daughter	F	2	S

1911 Census Return for 129 Coburg Street, Gorbals, Glasgow. Scotland’s People – 1911 ROGAN, JOHN (Census 644/2 17/ 22 / 15) Page 15 of 23

At this census we some of the above events reflected. Of their children, Rose Anne, who was born in 1907 is not present because she was recorded as a patient at the Belvidere Fever Hospital, London Road, Glasgow; it does not say what she was there for but it may have been smallpox.
Their second child, Mary McFillan Rogan, who was born 27 November 1908 is present in the house as a two-year-old. Their next child was not to be born for a few months yet – John was born 13 Jul 1911 so not yet in the outside world.

Some Other Events in Mary’s Life

Apart from the seven children that Mary Anne bore, at least three of whom died in infancy or childhood, there were there key events in her life after she married John Rogan. Her sister, Isabella died of bronchitis in 1908 aged 7, her father, John Neil, died of a cerebral haemorrhage in December of 1911. Her sister, Agnes, married William Young  and her brother, John married Mary McKenna both in 1913. Less happily, her own daughter, Sara died of pneumonia that year. The following year, 1914, her sister, Elizabeth, married John McGowan but the year after that, another of her children, Mary, also died – aged seven. Mary Anne was the informant the following year when her mother died (7 May 1916) Her address was recorded then as 21 Surrey Street. Her son, Patrick, was born 8 August 1916. Her brother, Timothy Chrystal Neil (my grandfather) married Margaret McDonald 16 July 1917 and her sister, Susan, married John Connor that year as well. Again, less happily, she lost another child when her daughter, Agnes died aged 3 of pneumonia (as her other daughter Sara had). Her last child, Francis, was born 21 of November 1918 but this seems to have been too much for her and she died of heart disease three days later. She left her widower husband with four children; Rose aged 11, John aged 7, Patrick aged 2 and a newly born baby, Francis. With large families, a lot happened!

Death of Mary Anne Rogan or Neil 24 Nov 1918

Mary Ann Rogan died on 24 Nov 1918 at 21 Surrey Street, Glasgow.

We can see the family at the taking of the 1921 Census when the family lived at 21 Surrey Street

The Rogans at the 1921 Census – 21 Surrey Street, Gorbals, Glasgow

Rel	Age	Sex	Mar	Birthplace	Occupation	Employment
Head	47y 6m	M	W	Manorhamilton, Leitrim, Ireland	Labourer, Gas Works	Corp Gas Dept
Dau	14y 2m	F	S	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Son	10	M	S	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Son	5	M	S	Glasgow, Lanarkshire

Scotland’s People 1921 Census England, Wales & Scotland Census for 21 Surrey Street, Gorbals, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland 1921 Rogan, John (Census 644/ 17 8/ 20) Page 20 of 27

This census return shows that the family of four live in two rooms. The family is headed up by John Rogan who is a widower aged 47 years and 6 months and was born in Manorhamilton, Co Leitrim, Ireland. He is a gas works labourer who works for the Corp Gas Dept. He has three dependent children aged 5, 10 and 14. His oldest child, Rose Ann is now a 14-year-old occupied with home duties. The next child is 10-year-old John and the last is the 5 year and 1 month old Patrick. John and Patrick are scholars and all the children were born in Glasgow.

The missing child is Francis who was born a few days before his mother died of heart failure. It may be that he was being raised by his mother’s sister, Susan, who has married John Connor in 1917 (as I have speculated above) since he says that he only has three dependent children. As noted above, there is a probability that he married Catherine Ritchie or Frank. We also have an idea about his death being in 1963 but I have not pursued this due to the desire to avoid “mission creep” with my family history project.

John’s son – also John – appears to have married Annie Ward in 1931. His daughter, Rose, died in 1938 and was buried at St Peter’s Dalbeth Cemetery on 17 December 1938.

The Death of John Rogan

I have not found a death for John Rogan yet. There are undoubtedly avenues that could be pursued here, though, particularly with the death registrations of his children but for the moment I return to his wife, Mary Ann Neil’s siblings.

Birth of Sarah Neil 10 Sep 1883

The next child born to John and Mary Ann was Sarah; her birth registration reads:

This shows that Sarah Neil was born at 8:30pm at 176 Main Street, Glasgow, the daughter of John Neil, Contractor’s Carter and Mary Anne Neil ms Chrystal who are said to have married Oct 2 1881 Gorbals District, Glasgow. The informant is Mary Anne Neil, mother, who signed with her mark. It was registered 1 Oct 1883 at Glasgow.

Baptism of Sarah Neil 18 Sep 1883

By the time of Sarah’s birth the family appear to be living at 146 Main Street, Gorbals. At the baptism the sponsor is Lizzie Neil and I think we can expect that to be her Aunt Lizzie, her father’s sister. Like Mary Ann she is baptised at St John the Evangelist Chapel on Portugal Street. We next find Sarah at the 1891 Census when she is an eight-year-old scholar.

Sarah Neil at the 1891 Census – 31 Salisbury Street, Gorbals, Glasgow

Name	Rel	Cond	Sex	Age	Occup	Where Born
John Neil	Head	M	M	28	Carter	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Mary Anne Neil	Wife	M	F	28		Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Sarah Neil	Daughter	S	F	8	Scholar	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Agnes Neil	Daughter	S	F	3		Glasgow, Lanarkshire
John Neil	Son	S	M	1		Glasgow, Lanarkshire

1891 Census Return for 31 Salisbury Street, Gorbals, Glasgow. (Scotland’s People 1891 Census England, Wales & Scotland Census: NEIL, JOHN (Census 644/12 22/ 19) Page 19 of 19)

At this census, Sarah’s father, John Neil is aged 28 and is a Carter, Mary Anne, her mother, is also 28. Of their children since their marriage, Mary Anne, Sarah’s older sister, is not recorded at 31 Salisbury Street but she was found at 7 Muirhead Street, the family home of her maternal grandparents, Timothy Chrystal and Mary Chrystal and their 25-year-old daughter, Eliza. Mary Anne is a 10-year-old scholar. Sarah, is with her parents, and she is an eight-year-old scholar. In the period between Sarah’s birth and this census, three more children had been born to Sarah’s parents; Elizabeth Chrystal Neil was born in 1886 but had died in 1888 (although there was to be a later child of the same name) Agnes, who was born in 1888 is present in the household and she is 3 years old. Finally, John, born 1890 is present and is a 1-year-old. More children were to come between the 1891 Census and the 1901 Census.

Sarah Neil at the 1901 Census – 21 Salisbury Street, Gorbals, Glasgow

Name	Rel	Cond	Sex	Age	Occupation	Status	Where Born
John Neil	Head	M	M	39	Coal Merchant's Labourer	Worker	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Mary A Neil	Wife	M	F	39			Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Mary Neil	Daughter	S	F	19	Tobacco Spinner	Worker	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Sarah Neil	Daughter	S	F	17	Handkerchief Hemmer	Worker	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Agnes Neil	Daughter	S	F	13	Scholar		Glasgow, Lanarkshire
John Neil	Son	S	M	10	Scholar		Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Timothy Neil	Son	S	M	8	Scholar		Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Lizze Neil	Daughter	S	F	6			Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Susan Neil	Daughter	S	F	3			Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Charles Neil	Son	S	M	1			Glasgow, Lanarkshire

1901 Census Return for 21 Salisbury Street, Tradeston, Glasgow. (Scotland’s People 1901 Census England, Wales & Scotland Census: NEIL, JOHN (Census 644/12 16/ 3) Page 3 of 30)

At this census the family are living at 21 Salisbury Street, Glasgow. Sarah’s father, John, is now 39-years-old and is a coal-merchant’s labourer. Mary Anne, her mother, is also aged 39. Sarah’s older sister, Mary Anne, is back with the family, and she is described as a tobacco spinner. Sarah, is now aged 17 and is a handkerchief hemmer, Agnes (13) and John (10) are both scholars and since the last census new children have been added to the family – Timothy Chrystal Neil ( 8 – b13 Jan 1893), Elizabeth Chrystal Neil ( 6 – b 25 Jun 1895), Susan Logan Neil ( 3 – b12 Oct 1897) and Charles ( 1 – b 30 Apr 1901). Timothy is a scholar, but the others are too young for school.

This census saw John Neil’s family at its most complete; by the next census only the youngest two children remained, and they and their parents lived as boarders in the household of Alex Kemp, a blacksmith. The years after the 1901 Census saw the family split off to form their own families. This was true of Sarah who married 3 years later.

Marriage of Sarah Neil and  Robert John Fullerton 30 Dec 1904 at St John the Evangelist, Glasgow

This marriage registration tells us that Robert John Fullerton’s parents were John Fullerton and Eliza Ann Tolbert. I found this family at the taking of the 1891 Census when they lived at 1 South Stirling Street

Here we find the Fullertons are John Fullerton, a 40-year-old Foundry Labourer and his 38-year-old wife, Eliza. Their children are Matilda a 17-year-old Skin Dresser, Robert, 25-years-old, unemployed, George, a 12-year-old scholar, Annie, a 9-year-old scholar and Sarah, a nine-month-old baby; Only the baby was born in Glasgow – all the rest were born in Ireland. There is one boarder, Peter McLeer, an 18-year-old foundry labourer born Glasgow. Given that their nine-year old was the last child on this list born in Ireland, they probably moved from Ireland between 1882 and 1890.
I could not find this family at the 1901 Census but we can trace the course of Robert John and Sarah’s life together through the births of their children as recorded at their baptisms.

The Children of Sarah Neil and Robert John Fullerton

Annie Fullerton was the last child that Sarah Neil and Robert John Fullerton had. We can follow the family through the period where their children were being born by looking at the census returns of 1911 and 1921.

Sarah Neil at the 1911 Census – 35 Coburg Street, Gorbals, Glasgow

Census Scotland 1911 Place: 135 Coburg Street, Gorbals, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland

Name	No	Rel	Sex	Age	Cond	Years	Chd Born	Chd Living	Occupation
Robert Fullerton	4	Head	M	33	M	6	4	2	Carter
Sarah Fullerton		Wife	F	28	M				Tobacco Spinner
Robert Fullerton		Son	M	4	S
Matilda Fullerton		Dau	F	3	S

1911 Census Return for 135 Coburg Street, Gorbals, Glasgow. (Scotland’s People 1891 Census England, Wales & Scotland Census: 1911 FULLERTON, ROBERT (Census 644/17 23/ 16) Page 16 of 23

As we have see, above, Sarah and John’s first child, Mary Ann, was born 21 Oct 1905 at 167 Govan Street, Gorbals but she died of pneumonia and was buried on 13 Nov 1907 at St Peter’s Cemetery, Dalbeath. The next child, Robert John, was also born at 167 Govan Street, Gorbals and he was born on 3 Jan 1907. Their third child, Matilda, was born 5 Apr 1908 at 31 Stirling Street, Gorbals, Glasgow. Charles was born 28 Jul 1909 at 167 Govan Street, Gorbals but died after 4 months from congestion of the lungs. He was buried at St Peter’s Cemetery, Dalbeath on 3 Dec 1909. So this is how the family presented itself at the 1911 Census where they seem to have moved to 135 Coburg Street.

Robert Fullerton is a 33-year-old Carter and Sarah is aged 28. Of their four children, only two have survived infancy; Robert is 4 and Matilda is 3. Only Robert senior was born in Ireland. The next child, George, was born 3 weeks or so after the 1911 Census was taken. He was born at 167 Govan Street, Gorbals on 25 Apr 1911. Neither of the next wo children fared well. Timothy was born 30 Mar 1913 at 10 Eglinton Lane, Gorbals but died after 11 months and he was buried at St Peter’s Cemetery, Dalbeath on 6 Mar 1914. His cause of death is somewhat cryptically given as “stomach”. Their last child, Annie, was also born at 10 Eglinton Lane. Born on 9 Sep 1914, she died 6 months later and was buried on 23 Mar 1916 at St Peter’s Cemetery, Dalbeath

This situation is reflected in the family at the 1921 Census but so also is the fact that Robert John Fullerton had died some time between the birth of Annie Fullerton in 1914 and 1921 so when we see the family it is with Sarah as head of household and a widow. Of the seven children she had with Robert John Fullerton, only three survived infancy and they are to be found in Sarah’s household at 10 Eglinton Lane, Gorbals

Sarah Neil at the 1921 Census – 10 Eglinton Lane, Gorbals, Glasgow

Name	Rel	Age	Sex	Mar/Orph	Birthplace	Occupation
Sarah Fullerton	Head	37y 9m	F	W	Glasgow, Lanarkshire	Home Duties
Robert J Fullerton	Son	14y 5m	M	S	Glasgow, Lanarkshire	None
Matilda Fullerton	Dau	13y 2m	F	S	Glasgow, Lanarkshire	Scholar
George Fullerton	Son	10y 2m	M	S	Glasgow, Lanarkshire	Scholar
Thomas Young	Son	3m	M	S	Glasgow, Lanarkshire

1921 Census Return for 10 Eglinton Lane, Gorbals, Glasgow. (Scotland’s People 1891 Census England, Wales & Scotland Census: 1921 FULLERTON, SARAH N (Census 644/17 22/ 7) Page 7 of 34

Here we see that Sarah who is recorded as Sarah N Fullerton is aged 37y 9m. Of her children, Robert John seems not to be employed even though he is aged 14y 5m. Her other two children by Robert John Fullerton snr., Matilda (13y 2m) and George (10y 2m) are both scholars. There is, however, another child, Thomas Young, aged just three months and this leads us to another development in her life.

Thomas Young born 9 Mar 1921 at 10 Eglinton Lane, Gorbals

Marriage of Sarah Neil or Fullerton and  George Young 9 Jul 1921 at 90½ Great Hamilton Street, Glasgow

We see that Sarah married George Young by declaration in front of two witnesses at 90½ Great Hamilton Street, Glasgow which I believe was the Office of The Sheriff’s Substitute of Lanark. The Scotland’s People web site explains this:

“Until the mid-twentieth century most people in Scotland were married by a minister, in a ‘regular’ marriage. These involved banns being read on three consecutive Sundays at the parish church. However, a minority were wed by ‘irregular’ marriage, in which a man and a woman made a declaration in front of two witnesses, hence the other name ‘marriage by declaration’. By showing proofs of their marriage the parties could obtain a warrant of a sheriff or sheriff substitute to have the marriage registered by the local registrar. Churches disagreed with these marriages in principle but accepted them for fear that couples would otherwise ‘live in sin’. There are fascinating stories behind some of the irregular marriages before the law changed on 1 July 1940, when they were no longer legal. From that date Scottish registrars were permitted to perform civil marriages for the first time, under the Marriage (Scotland) Act 1939.” The article which you can read here has several examples, some quite exotic, of marriages that took place in this way. However fascinating though, I think this line of research will have to wait for a later date.

The article which you can read here has several examples, some quite exotic, of marriages that took place in this way. However fascinating though, I think this line of research will have to wait for a later date.

At George’s marriage to Sarah Fullerton or Neil it is said this mother is “Elizabeth Young, now Marshall M.S. Sloan” which implies that William Young died and she remarried to a Marshall. I did a bit of searching on Scotland’s people and index entries showed the following marriages

Surname	Forename	Spouse Surname	Spouse Forename	Year	Ref	RD Name
SLOAN	ELIZABETH	YOUNG	WILLIAM	1869	644 / 9 / 316	Tradeston
SLOAN	ELIZABETH	MARSHALL	DAVID	1894	644 / 12 / 390	Gorbals

At his marriage to Sarah, George is described as a Quay Labourer aged 43. The order of events here was Thomas Young was born 9 March 1921, the census is held 19 June 1921 (Thomas is three months old) and then the couple marry by declaration on 9 July 1921. George is not in the same household as Sarah and their son and, soon to be step-children. The question was where was he?  I looked for a George Young aged 43 (his age at marriage) in the 1921 Census and found him at the same address he had given at his marriage to Sarah, 38 Adelphi Street, Glasgow. This George was also a dock labourer so that fitted well with our George. However he is living as a “father-in-law” to a George Davies and his wife, Lizzie. In fact a few Youngs live in George Davies household as “brothers-in-law” and this led me down a bit of a rabbit hole. The following details about George’s background is a little tentative; a lot of details fit well, but others do not. I note them here as something to research in greater detail

Who Was George Young at the 1921 Census for 38 Adelphi Street?

Because this is entirely speculative, and I spent a long time thinking about it but reaching no firm conclusion I merely note that I have downloaded the 1921 Census return for the household of George Davies. [N460] I believe that it might show that George Davies’ wife may have been Elizabeth Young whom he married 24 October 1919. I have downloaded that as [N 461] This says that George’s parents were James Davis and Mary Ann Logan and Elizabeth’s as George Young and Mary Quinn. Now if Elizabeth Young is a daughter of George Young does that mean that that his first wife (he was a widower when he married Sarah) was Mary Quinn. If so there are the following baptisms for children with parents, George Young and Mary Quinn:

Surname	Forename	Year	Source	District
Young	Elizabeth	1899	Scotland Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms	Glasgow, Gorbals, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Young	Edwardus	1905	Scotland Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms	Glasgow, Kinning Park, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Young	Georgius	1903	Scotland Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms	Glasgow, Gorbals, Lanarkshire. Scotland
Young	Joannes	1910	Scotland Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms	Glasgow, Gorbals, Lanarkshire, Scotland
Young	Margarita	1901	Scotland Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms	Glasgow. Gorbals, Lanarkshire, Scotland

In the end the whole thing got to be too time consuming and is yet another item for future research. Ultimately it would have been a short-lived marriage because Sarah died on 6 May 1924

Death of Sarah Neil or Fullerton or Young 6 May 1924 at Glasgow Maternity Hospital

It would seem that Sarah was pregnant with another child when she died at the Glasgow Maternity Hospital (Rottenrow) at the corner of North Portland Street, Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland.

This left George Young responsible for his step-children Robert, Matilda and George as well as his own son, Thomas who would have been a three-year-old. I do not know any more about Sarah’s second husband nor their son, George Young.

This is as far as I have managed to get with the life of Sarah Neil and her children.

Birth of Elizabeth Chrystal Neil 11 Feb 1886

Baptism of Elizabeth Chrystal Neil 22 Feb 1886

Elizabeth’s is said to have been born at 20 Hallside Street. I am not sure if this is John and Mary Anne’s home address as it is the only reference to it for this family and it could be that Mary Anne had this child at someone else’s home. The case for this is strengthened when we see that 20 Hallside Street was the usual address of Mary Jane Reid on 17 May 1886 when she married John Chrystal who was Mary Anne’s brother. John’s address was given as 380 Cumberland Street, Glasgow at the marriage so perhaps this was the home of Mary Anne’s parents as was the case with the birth of Mary Anne’s first child (also Mary Anne) in 1881. If it was the home of Mary Anne’s parents, of course, this might fit in well with the following observation.

At the baptism the sponsor is Lizzie Crystal. I observed above at the birth of the previous child – Sarah’ – that at her baptism the sponsor was her Aunt Lizzie, her father’s sister. In this case the sponsor is Elizabeth Crystal and here I think that this would be maternal Aunt, Elizabeth Caul Chrystal – this is especially likely given that she is named Elizabeth Chrystal Neil in her statutory registration even if not stated as such on the record of the baptism. This could, of course, be an error by the priest because he makes another error in implying that the father is John Chrystal.

This actually caused me a lot of problems when researching the baptisms of the children. My search of the online indexes to the Catholic baptismal registers revealed a big gap between the birth of the above Sarah in 1883 and Agnes in 1888. I expected a child to be baptised in the intervening years To try to resolve this gap I downloaded all the statutory births to Neil surnames in Govan, Gorbals, Hutchesontown and Calton between 1883 to 1900 to try to find further children to John and Mary Anne. I looked at some of these and thought that an Elizabeth Neill born in Gorbals in 1886 was a good candidate. I could not understand why it had not been flagged up earlier in my search but perhaps it was because I had a search criterion that the father should be John Neil. When I looked at the Find My Past transcription of this Elizabeth Neil, it indicated that the father’s name was John Crystal. An examination of the actual register entry showed that this was caused by the priest not bothering to put the father’s surname in the “name of parents” box because he already included the paternal surname in the name of the child which is written in as “Neill, Elizabeth” so there was no further need to write the father’s surname again. Perhaps it would have been recorded more correctly if she had been baptised at St. John’s on Portugal Street, like the first two children, but Elizabeth is baptised at St Francis’s Church in Cumberland Street, Gorbals instead.

It is perhaps an indication of more sanitary living conditions and availability of fresh water in the city towards the end of the 19th Century that so few of John and Mary Anne’s children died in infancy. Of their ten children only two died under eight years old. Elizabeth was one of these, however, and she died in 1888 but even that was not due to disease but, presumably an accident, as her cause of death was “burn of head and body”. I detail this more in the page dedicated to the lives of John Neil’s siblings.

Elizabeth’s is said to have been born at 20 Hallside Street. I am not sure if this is John and Mary Anne’s home address as it is the only reference to it for this family and it could be that Mary Anne had this child at someone else’s home. The case for this is strengthened when we see that 20 Hallside Street was the usual address of Mary Jane Reid on 17 May 1886 when she married John Chrystal who was Mary Anne’s brother. John’s address was given as 380 Cumberland Street, Glasgow at the marriage so perhaps this was the home of Mary Anne’s parents as was the case with the birth of Mary Anne’s first child (also Mary Anne) in 1881. If it was the home of Mary Anne’s parents, of course, this might fit in well with the following observation.

At the baptism the sponsor is Lizzie Crystal. I observed above at the birth of the previous child – Sarah’ – that at her baptism the sponsor was her Aunt Lizzie, her father’s sister. In this case the sponsor is Elizabeth Crystal and here I think that this would be maternal Aunt, Elizabeth Caul Chrystal – this is especially likely given that she is named Elizabeth Chrystal Neil in her statutory registration even if not stated as such on the record of the baptism. This could, of course, be an error by the priest because he makes another error in implying that the father is John Chrystal.

This actually caused me a lot of problems when researching the baptisms of the children. My search of the online indexes to the Catholic baptismal registers revealed a big gap between the birth of the above Sarah in 1883 and Agnes in 1888. I expected a child to be baptised in the intervening years To try to resolve this gap I downloaded all the statutory births to Neil surnames in Govan, Gorbals, Hutchesontown and Calton between 1883 to 1900 to try to find further children to John and Mary Anne. I looked at some of these and thought that an Elizabeth Neill born in Gorbals in 1886 was a good candidate. I could not understand why it had not been flagged up earlier in my search but perhaps it was because I had a search criterion that the father should be John Neil. When I looked at the Find My Past transcription of this Elizabeth Neil, it indicated that the father’s name was John Crystal. An examination of the actual register entry showed that this was caused by the priest not bothering to put the father’s surname in the “name of parents” box because he already included the paternal surname in the name of the child which is written in as “Neill, Elizabeth” so there was no further need to write the father’s surname again. Perhaps it would have been recorded more correctly if she had been baptised at St. John’s on Portugal Street, like the first two children, but Elizabeth is baptised at St Francis’s Church in Cumberland Street, Gorbals instead.

It is perhaps an indication of more sanitary living conditions and availability of fresh water in the city towards the end of the 19th Century that so few of John and Mary Anne’s children died in infancy. Of their ten children only two died under eight years old. Elizabeth was one of these, however, and she died in 1888 but even that was not due to disease but, presumably an accident, as her cause of death was “burn of head and body”. I detail this more in the page dedicated to the lives of John Neil’s siblings.

Death of Elizabeth Chrystal Neil 16 Mar 1888

Elizabeth Chrystal Nei1 16 Mar 1888 at Glasgow Royal Infirmary

Because of the accidental nature of the death, there was a precognition and the report of this confirms that the death was from accidental burning. It can be seen here.

Burial of Elizabeth Chrystal Neil 17 Mar 1888 St Peter’s Dalbeth Cemetery

Because of the accidental nature of the death, there was a precognition and the report of this confirms that the death was from accidental burning. It can be seen here.

Birth of Agnes Neil b 26 Mar 1888

This shows us that Agnes Neil was born at 9am on 26th March 1888 at 33 Salisbury Street, Glasgow, the daughter of John Neil, contractor’s carter, and Mary Anne Neil ms Chrystal. The parents had been married on 2 Oct 1880 in the Gorbals District of Glasgow. Mary Anne Neil was the informant, and she signed (x) with her mark. The birth was registered on 4 April 1888 at Glasgow. Agnes was baptised at St John the Evangelist on Portugal Street a week later.

Baptism of Agnes Neil b 2 Apr 1888

Agnes Neil at the 1891 Census – 31 Salisbury Street, Gorbals, Glasgow

Name	Rel	Cond	Sex	Age	Occup	Where Born
John Neil	Head	M	M	28	Carter	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Mary Anne Neil	Wife	M	F	28		Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Sarah Neil	Daughter	S	F	8	Scholar	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Agnes Neil	Daughter	S	F	3		Glasgow, Lanarkshire
John Neil	Son	S	M	1		Glasgow, Lanarkshire

1891 Census Return for 31 Salisbury Street, Gorbals, Glasgow. (Scotland’s People 1891 Census England, Wales & Scotland Census: NEIL, JOHN (Census 644/12 22/ 19) Page 19 of 19)

At this census, Agnes’s father, John Neil is aged 28 and is a Carter, Mary Anne, her mother, is also 28. Of their children since their marriage, Mary Anne, Agnes’s older sister, is not recorded at 31 Salisbury Street but she was found at 7 Muirhead Street, the family home of her maternal grandparents, Timothy Chrystal and Mary Chrystal and their 25-year-old daughter, Eliza. Mary Anne is a 10-year-old scholar. Agnes’s other older sister, Sarah, is present in the household and she is an eight-year-old scholar. Agnes is aged just three and there is another child, a son named John who is said to be aged one. There had been another child, Elizabeth Chrystal Neil and she was born in 1886 but had died in 1888 (although there was to be a later child of the same name). So, as the family stands at this census, John and Mary Ann Neil are living with three of their children whilst the fourth is visiting her grandparents when the census is taken. More children were to come between the 1891 Census and the 1901 Census.

Agnes Neil at the 1901 Census – 21 Salisbury Street, Glasgow

Name	Rel	Cond	Sex	Age	Occupation	Status	Where Born
John Neil	Head	M	M	39	Coal Merchant's Labourer	Worker	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Mary A Neil	Wife	M	F	39			Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Mary Neil	Daughter	S	F	19	Tobacco Spinner	Worker	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Sarah Neil	Daughter	S	F	17	Handkerchief Hemmer	Worker	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Agnes Neil	Daughter	S	F	13	Scholar		Glasgow, Lanarkshire
John Neil	Son	S	M	10	Scholar		Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Timothy Neil	Son	S	M	8	Scholar		Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Lizze Neil	Daughter	S	F	6			Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Susan Neil	Daughter	S	F	3			Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Charles Neil	Son	S	M	1			Glasgow, Lanarkshire

1901 Census Return for 21 Salisbury Street, Tradeston, Glasgow. (Scotland’s People 1901 Census England, Wales & Scotland Census: NEIL, JOHN (Census 644/12 16/ 3) Page 3 of 30)

At this census the family are living at 21 Salisbury Street, Glasgow. John is now a 39-year-old and a coal merchant’s labourer. Mary Anne, his wife, is also aged 39. Mary Anne (junior) is back with the family, and she is described as a tobacco spinner. Other children in the household are Sarah, aged 17 and is a handkerchief hemmer. Agnes (13) and John (10) are both scholars and since the last census new children have been added to the family – Timothy Chrystal Neil ( 8 – b. 13 Jan 1893), Elizabeth Chrystal Neil ( 6 – b. 25 Jun 1895), Susan Logan Neil ( 3 – b. 12 Oct 1897) and Charles ( 1 – b. 30 Apr 1901). Timothy is a scholar, but the others are too young for school.

This census saw John Neil’s family at its most complete; by the next census only the youngest two children remained, and they and their parents lived as boarders in the household of Alex Kemp, a blacksmith. The years after the 1901 Census saw the family split off to form their own families. Sarah married Robert John Fullerton in 1904, Mary Anne Neil married John Rogan in 1907. At the 1911 Census, Mary Anne can be found with her, as yet, one-child family living at 129 Coburg Street. Sarah has two children and the family also live at Coburg Street but at number 135. Agnes is not yet married; she does live in the household that contains her future husband but she does not live where one might expect to find her.

Agnes Neil at the 1911 Census – 35 Nelson Street, Dundee

Census Scotland 1911 Place: 35 Nelson Street, , Dundee, Forfarshire, Scotland

Name	Rel	Sex	Age	Cond	Occupation	Where Born
Wm Young	Head	M	57	Mar	General Labourer	Dundee, Forfarshire
Ann Young	Wife	F	59	Mar		Strathmiglo, Kinrosshire
Alex Duncan	Step Son	M	33	Unm	General Labourer	Couper Angus, Forfarshire
Wm Young	Son	M	21	Unm	Mill Worker (Jute)	Dundee, Forfarshire
Christine Young	Dau	F	19	Unm	Weaver (Jute)	Dundee, Forfarshire
Agnes Neill	Br	F	22	Unm		Govan, Lanarkshire

1911 Census Return for 35 Nelson Street, Dundee, Forfarshire, Scotland. (Scotland’s People 1911 Census England, Wales & Scotland Census: 1911 NEILL, AGNES (Census 282/ 4 24/ 20) Page 20 of 30

This is a partial transcript on the return; there is much more information on the original. Ann Young states that she has been married 24 years and she has borne 10 children of which 6 are alive at 1911.

In this census return we see that Agnes Neill is now aged 22 but no occupation is given for her. She is a boarder in the household of William Young, a 57-year-old general labourer and his 59-year-old wife, Anne Young; both born in Dundee, Forfarshire. Also in the house is Alex Duncan, Stepson aged 33 and a jute mill labourer born in Couper Angus, Forfarshire. Also in the house is William Young, a 21-year-old son also a jute mill labourer born in Dundee. There is a daughter, Christine, aged 19 and she is a jute weaver born Dundee. The household is finished off with Agness Neill, a boarder, aged 22 born Govan , Lanarkshire, No employment is stated for her. Apart from the head of household and his wife, all the other occupants are single.

Agnes was to go on to marry the younger William Young on this census return but the Youngs and Duncans are a bit confusing so I consider these family groups first.

Some Background on the Youngs and Duncans at the 1891 and 1901 Censuses

Marriage of Agnes Neil and William Gow Young 1 Jan 1913 – 35 Nelson Street, Dundee

Despite the couple living in the same household at the 1911 census, here they are said to have different “usual residences”. William’s is 35 Nelson Street, Dundee and Agnes’s is 43 Main Street, Dundee. They are both Jute Preparers and he is 22 and she is 23. It is interesting that they married in a Baptist church. And even more curious is that they should marry twenty years later in the Catholic faith!

Marriage of Agnes Neil and William Gow Young 25 Nov 1933 – St Mary Our Lady of Victories, Dundee

The dispensation mentioned may only be a result of mixed religion. There may be more to it than that in this case, though.

In the Catholic Church, a dispensation from disparity of cult is a permission granted by a bishop to allow a marriage between a Catholic and a non-baptized person.  This is because disparity of cult, also known as disparity of worship, is a reason why a marriage cannot be valid without a dispensation.

I do not know why this couple married twice, twenty years apart in quite different churches. Also, I have not been able to find a statutory registration for this event. But surely, they must be the same people- another mystery.

The Children of Agnes Neil and William Gow Young

William and Agnes had three children that I have found: one born in 1911 before they were married, one born in 1913 and one in 1917. There may be more but the first one was hard to find so it might need a lot more searching.

Agnes Neil at the 1921 Census – 21 Nelson Street, Dundee

We have already seen this census return a few times when looking at their children but to summarise; William Young is 31y 2m old unemployed labourer, though still said to be in the employ of the Dundee Shipbuilding Co. This could suggest a stike or just a laying off of workers due to market conditions. Agnes is 33y 3m and is occupied in home duties. Of their three children, Mary Ann Chrystal O’ Neil, their eldest, is not with the family at this census. As we have seen, she married James Lettice in 1937 but I have no idea where she was at the taking of the 1921 Census. This left their next two children – Margaret, now aged 7y 8m and Williamina, aged 3y 11m. Margaret is a scholar.

Somewhat oddly, the next time we hear of Agnes is at what appears to be a renewal of vows but in the Catholic faith. They had married on the 1 Jan 1913 at 35 Nelson Street, Dundee according to the forms of the Baptist Church. Some twenty years later they appear to have married at St Mary Our Lady of Victories RC church in Dundee

Marriage of Agnes Neil and William Gow Young 25 Nov 1933 – St Mary Our Lady of Victories, Dundee.

In the Catholic Church, a dispensation from “disparity of cult” is a permission granted by a bishop to allow a marriage between a Catholic and a non-baptized person.  I do not know why this couple married twice, twenty years apart in quite different churches, but surely they must be the same people- another mystery.

Death of Agnes Neil or Young 15 Jan 1938 at Kings Cross Hospital, Dundee

Agnes died aged 49 but she was not the first of her siblings to pass. Apart from the first Elizabeth Chrystal Neil, (who died aged 2 in 1888) her siblings Isabella, Mary Ann, Sarah, John, Charles and Timothy had all died. After Agnes that meant that of all John Neil and Mary Ann Chrystal’s children only two were still alive, Elizabeth who lived to be 70, and Susan who lived the longest dying aged 87 in 1964 (When I was 13 years old!)

Agnes died leaving a William a widower, aged 48 and three daughters. Mary Ann Chrystal O’Neil was 27 years old when her mother died. She had married James Lettice in 1937. Margaret was 24 at the death of her mother and had married Joseph Hood Batchelor a couple of years before and already had a child of her own. Williamina was younger and she was 20 years old when Agnes died. She married four years later.

A couple of years after Agnes had died, her husband remarried.

Marriage of William Gow Young and Margaret Logan 22 Jun 1940 – St Patrick’s Church, Dundee.

I also found a church register entry for this marriage:

Marriage of William Gow Young and Margaret Logan 22 Jun 1940 – St Patrick’s Church, Dundee.

William Gow Young went on to live for another twenty-nine years and died aged 78.

Death of Death of William Gow Young 9 Jan 1969 at Ashludie Hospital, Monifieth

This brings us to the end of our research into Agnes Neil – at least for the moment. The next child born to John Neil and Mary Ann Chrystal was John Neil born 1 Jun 1890 and it is to him that I turn to next.

John Neil b 1 Jun 1890 at 31 Salisbury Street, Gorbals

Birth of John Neil b 1 Jun 1890

This shows that John Neil was born at 00.30 pm on 1st Jun 1890 at 31 Salisbury Street, Glasgow. His father is John Neil, Builder’s Carter, and Mary Anne Neil (ms Chrystal). The parents were married 2 Oct 1880, Gorbals District, Glasgow. The birth was registered on 5th June 1990, Gorbals District, Glasgow. The informant was John Neil, father, but it is not indicated if John signed his mark or not.

Baptism of John O’Neill 9 Jun 1890

John Neil at the 1891 Census – 31 Salisbury Street, Gorbals, Glasgow

Name	Rel	Cond	Sex	Age	Occup	Where Born
John Neil	Head	M	M	28	Carter	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Mary Anne Neil	Wife	M	F	28		Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Sarah Neil	Daughter	S	F	8	Scholar	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Agnes Neil	Daughter	S	F	3		Glasgow, Lanarkshire
John Neil	Son	S	M	1		Glasgow, Lanarkshire

1891 Census Return for 31 Salisbury Street, Gorbals, Glasgow. (Scotland’s People 1891 Census England, Wales & Scotland Census: NEIL, JOHN (Census 644/12 22/ 19) Page 19 of 19)

At this census we find John’s father, John Sr, is a twenty-eight-year-old carter. His wife, Mary Anne is said to be the same age -she was actually about ten months younger than John. The children at the census are Sarah, aged eight and a scholar, Agnes, aged 3, and John, aged just 1; his first birthday would have been 4 days later. The oldest child in the family was actually Mary Ann who was staying with her maternal grandparents at the taking of this census. There had been another child, born four years before John but she died from accidental burns to the head and body aged two. By the time of the next census the family has grown quite a bit and there are another four children added to the family.

John Neil at the 1901 Census – 21 Salisbury Street, Gorbals, Glasgow

Name	Rel	Cond	Sex	Age	Occupation	Status	Where Born
John Neil	Head	M	M	39	Coal Merchant's Labourer	Worker	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Mary A Neil	Wife	M	F	39			Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Mary Neil	Daughter	S	F	19	Tobacco Spinner	Worker	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Sarah Neil	Daughter	S	F	17	Handkerchief Hemmer	Worker	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Agnes Neil	Daughter	S	F	13	Scholar		Glasgow, Lanarkshire
John Neil	Son	S	M	10	Scholar		Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Timothy Neil	Son	S	M	8	Scholar		Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Lizzie Neil	Daughter	S	F	6			Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Susan Neil	Daughter	S	F	3			Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Charles Neil	Son	S	M	1			Glasgow, Lanarkshire

1901 Census Return for 21 Salisbury Street, Gorbals, Glasgow. (Scotland’s People 1901 Census England, Wales & Scotland Census: NEIL, JOHN (Census 644/12 16/ 3) Page 3 of 30)

At this census the family are living at 21 Salisbury Street, Glasgow. John is now a 39-year-old coal-merchant’s labourer. Mary Anne, his wife, is also aged 39. Their eldest child, Mary Anne is back with the family (she was recorded in the household of the children’s maternal grandparents at the previous census), and she is described as a tobacco spinner. Other children in the household are Sarah, aged 17 and handkerchief hemmer, Agnes (13) and John (10) are both scholars and since the last census new children have been added to the family – Timothy Chrystal Neil ( aged 8 – b. 13 Jan 1893), Elizabeth Chrystal Neil (aged 6 – b. 25 Jun 1895), Susan Logan Neil ( aged 3 – b. 12 Oct 1897) and Charles (aged 1 – b. 30 Apr 1901). Timothy is a scholar, but the others are too young for school.

This census saw John Neil and Mary Anne Chrystal’s family at its most complete; by the next census only the youngest two children remained, and they and their parents lived as boarders in the household of Alex Kemp, a blacksmith. The years after the 1901 Census saw the family split off to form their own families. Sarah married Robert John Fullerton in 1904, Mary Anne Neil married John Rogan in 1907. Isabella never reached marrying age and died, aged seven in 1908. After the 1911 Census, Agnes Neil married Wiilliam Gow Young and, John married Mary McKenna both in 1913, Elizabeth married John McGowan in 1914, Timothy married Margaret McDonald in 1917, Susan married John Connor in 1917. After the 1921 Census, Charles married Marion McMillan Barrett in 1924

John Neil at the 1911 Census

I have spent a lot of time and money looking for John at the 1911 Census and have come up with the wrong person at every turn. I need to be able to scour the possibilities without paying for each view of a census page; so this is a question for another day. I do know that we find him living at 10 Eglinton Lane on 24 March 1913 when he married Mary McKenna.

Marriage of John Neil and Mary McKenna 24 Mar 1913 at St John the Evangelist, Portugal Street, Glasgow

John Neil at the 1921 Census – 68 Main Street, Calton, Glasgow

Name	Rel	Age	Sex	Mar/Orph	Birthplace	Occupation	Status	Employment
John Neil	Head	31	M	M	Glasgow, Lanarkshire	Dock Labourer	W
Mary Neil	Wife	33	F	M	Glasgow, Lanarkshire	HD
Archibald Neil	Adopted Son	5y 3m	M	S	Glasgow, Lanarkshire	Scholar

1921 Census Return for 68 Main Street, Calton, Glasgow. (Scotland’s People 1921 Census England, Wales & Scotland Census: NEIL, JOHN (Census 644/3 66/ 15) Page 15 of 29)

Here we find John and Mary living at 68 Main Street, Calton, Glasgow. John is a 31 year old Dock Labourer and Mary is now aged 33. They have an adopted son, Archibald, and he is a scholar aged five years and three months.

The Children of John Neil and Mary McKenna

Archibald Neil adopted son of John Neil and Mary McKenna b abt March 1916

I have looked for Archibald’s birth but I could not spend the time to work through all the possible variables of who his real parents might be. My first thoughts were that he could have been the child of a relative but that will need a lot of digging into.

IIn this regard it is worth noting that something similar may have happened among John Neil’s siblings already. John’s older sister, Mary Ann Neil, married John Rogan in 1907 and they went on to have seven children between 1907 and 1918. The last of these children, Francis Rogan was born 21 Nov 1918. The mother, however, died just three days later. Mary Ann Rogan or Neil died of heart disease at 21 Surrey Street on 24 Nov 1918. His mother’s death may have led to his adoption. Mary Ann’s (sixteen years younger) sister Susan Neil who had married John Connor in 1917 and was childless by 1921 with the exception of an adopted child, Frank Rogan, aged 2 years and 7 months. This date matched exactly the birth of Mary Ann Rogan or Neil’s child. It seems likely that with no mother alive to look after a new baby and with the closeness of birth and death suggesting a possible causal link, it might well have been a good solution for both families for Francis to be raised by Susan Logan Neil and John Connor.

It is interesting that in the row where John states that he has one dependent child aged 5 the 1 has been replaced by “none” and a green box has later been added around both the 1 and the x under the aged 5 box.

Death of John Neil 26 Jul 1934

Death of John Neil 26 Jul 1934 at 9 Pitcairn Street, Shettleston, Glasgow

Burial of John Neil 29 Jul 1934 at St Peter’s Dalbeth Cemetery, Glasgow

From these two records we find that John Neil died at 9 Pitcairn Street, Shettleston, Glasgow aged 43 from Chronic Bronchitis and Phthisis(pulmonary tuberculosis). His wife, Mary, was the informant. He was buried three days later in St Peter’s Dalbeth Cemetery. The burial register says that the lair was owned by his brother-in-law, which would have been either William McKenna or John McKenna.

Mary Neil or McKenna went outlive her husband by almost thirty years and died in 1963 aged seventy-four.

Death of Mary McKenna 1 Jun 1963

Death of Mary McKenna 1 Jun 1963 at Gartloch Hospital, Glasgow.

Burial of Mary Neil or McKenna 4 Jun 1963 at St Peter’s Dalbeth Cemetery

From these two records we find that Mary Neil died at Gartloch Hospital, Glasgow aged 74 from “Tabes dorsalis” which is an advanced syphilis infection, probably untreated for many years. [read more about this here] Cystitis was one of the side-effects and is a urinary tract infection. The informant was A Neil, son of 77 Fordneuk Street. She was buried three days later in St Peter’s Dalbeth Cemetery. She is said to be the wife of the owner of the lair, but I am not sure how this fits with the description at her husband’s burial. I do wonder whether Mary contracted syphilis from her husband, John, during WW1. I have no record of him and Mary between 1914 and the 1921 Census. John would have been aged 24 in 1914 and 32 in 1918. Archibald was born in 1916 and he is with the family as an adopted son at the 1921 Census. I have researched the possibility of army records for John and have come up with some possibilities but nothing very convincing.

The informant at the death registration was Archibald Neil, her adopted son.

More About Archibald Neil born circa 1916

Birth of Archibald Neil c 1916

I do not know anything about the birth of Archibald Neil. There are no likely Archibald Neil’s in the register of births or baptisms; it is possible that he was not born as a Neil at all and adopted that name when he, himself, was adopted. Interestingly there is an Archibald McKenna born in 1917 in Govanhill and his mother’s maiden name was Cassidy but that might be a stretch. There is a lot more that could be done to research this birth. Ordering a paper certificate might clear up some of the questions about Archibald – or not!

Adoption of Archibald Neil

As seen above, the first knowledge of Archibald that I have is at the 1921 Census when he is said to be aged five years and three months and he is a scholar and lives with his parents, John and Mary, at 68 Main Street, Calton, Glasgow. I have no further information on Archibald until his marriage in 1937

I do not know whether Archibald remarried but I do not have any documentation to suggest this. You would think that someone divorces in order to remarry but this is just speculation on my part. Archibald would have been aged about forty-nine at the time of his divorce and Albertina a couple of years younger. I have not found a remarriage for either of them, but these entries might be of interest when I have more time to look at this family

NEIL	ARCHIBALD S	BOYLE	MARGARET ROSE	1968	644 / 7 / 584	Glasgow	No image
NEIL	ARCHIBALD	HADDOW	MARY CHALMERS	1971	644 / 9 / 405	Glasgow	No image

Death of Archibald Neil 1986 in Glasgow

I know nothing more about Archibald until his death for which no document is available online but there is an index entry for it. At some point it might be useful to obtain a copy of his death registration.

Surname	Forename	Age at death	Mother's Maiden Name	Gender	Year	Ref	RD Name	Image
NEIL	ARCHIBALD	69	MCKENNA	M	1986	617 / 59	Glasgow, Martha St	No Image

Timothy Chrystal Neil b 13 Jan 1893 at 31 Salisbury Street, Gorbals

Birth of Timothy Chrystal Neil 13 Jan 1893

Baptism of Timothy Chrystal Neil 19 Jan 1893

Birth of Elizabeth Chrystal Neil b 25 Jun 1895

Baptism of Elizabeth Chrystal Neil 1 Jul 1895

Elizabeth Chrystal Neil at the 1901 Census – 21 Salisbury Street

Name	Rel	Cond	Sex	Age	Occupation	Status	Where Born
John Neil	Head	M	M	39	Coal Merchant's Labourer	Worker	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Mary A Neil	Wife	M	F	39			Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Mary Neil	Daughter	S	F	19	Tobacco Spinner	Worker	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Sarah Neil	Daughter	S	F	17	Handkerchief Hemmer	Worker	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Agnes Neil	Daughter	S	F	13	Scholar		Glasgow, Lanarkshire
John Neil	Son	S	M	10	Scholar		Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Timothy Neil	Son	S	M	8	Scholar		Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Lizzie Neil	Daughter	S	F	6			Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Susan Neil	Daughter	S	F	3			Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Charles Neil	Son	S	M	1			Glasgow, Lanarkshire

1901 Census Return for 21 Salisbury Street, Tradeston, Glasgow. (Scotland’s People 1901 Census England, Wales & Scotland Census: NEIL, JOHN (Census 644/12 16/ 3) Page 3 of 30)

At this census the family are living at 21 Salisbury Street, Glasgow. John is now a 39-year-old coal merchant’s labourer. Mary Anne, his wife, is also aged 39. Their eldest child, Mary Anne is back with the family (she was recorded in the household of the children’s maternal grandparents at the previous census), and she is described as a tobacco spinner. Other children in the household are Sarah, aged 17 and handkerchief hemmer, Agnes (13) and John (10) are both scholars and since the last census new children have been added to the family – Timothy Chrystal Neil ( aged 8 – b. 13 Jan 1893), Elizabeth Chrystal Neil (aged 6 – b. 25 Jun 1895), Susan Logan Neil (aged 3 – b. 12 Oct 1897) and Charles (aged 1 – b. 30 Apr 1901). Timothy is a scholar, but the others are too young for school.

This census sees John Neil and Mary Anne Chrystal’s family at its most complete; by the next census only the youngest two children remained, and they and their parents lived as boarders in the household of Alex Kemp, a blacksmith. The years after the 1901 Census saw the family split off to form their own families. Sarah married Robert John Fullerton in 1904, Mary Anne Neil married John Rogan in 1907. Isabella never reached marrying age and died, aged seven in 1908. After the 1911 Census, Agnes Neil married Wiilliam Gow Young and, John married Mary McKenna both in 1913, Elizabeth married John McGowan in 1914, Timothy married Margaret McDonald in 1917, Susan married John Connor in 1917. After the 1921 Census, Charles married Marion McMillan Barrett in 1924

Marriage of Elizabeth Chrystal Neil and John McGowan 24 Apr 1914 at St John the Evangelist, Portugal Street, Glasgow

Here we find Lizzie as a domestic servant, aged 18; she lives at 10 Eglinton Lane, Glasgow. John McGowan is just 17 and is an iron plater’s helper who lives at 1 South Stirling Street. He is the son of John McGowan, a seaman, and Grace McGowan, previously Baird ms Aird. For more on the McGowan Family see here.

Elizabeth is a witness, along with Thomas Mullen (possibly her cousin or uncle) at the marriage of her older brother, Timothy Chrystal Neil when he married Margaret McDonald in 1917 but largely we follow her through the many births she had – fourteen between 1914 – 1936, five (or perhaps six) of which died in childhood, the rest living quite long and in some cases into their eighties and one even into the fourteenth year of the 21st century. The first census after the couple married shows the first four children they had.

John McGowan and Elizabeth Chrystal Neil at the 1921 Census 10½ Eglinton Lane, Glasgow

Name	Rel	Age	Sex	Mar/Orph	Birthplace	Occupation	Status	Employment
John McGowan	Head	25y 1m	M	M	Glasgow, Lanarkshire	Labourer	W	Smith & McLean Galvanisers
Elizabeth McGowan	Wife	26y 11m	F	M	Glasgow, Lanarkshire	Home Duties
Mary Ann McGowan	Dau	7y 0m	F	S	Glasgow, Lanarkshire	Scholar
Dorothea McGowan	Dau	5y 11m	F	S	Glasgow, Lanarkshire	Scholar
John McGowan	Son	4y 1m	M	S	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Charles McGowan	Son	1y 2m	M	S	Glasgow, Lanarkshire

1921 Census Return for 10½ Eglinton Lane, Gorbals, Glasgow Scotland’s People (1921 Scotland Census, 1921 MCGOWAN, ELIZABETH (Census 644/17 22/ 5) Page 5 of 34

Seven years after their marriage finds John aged 25y 1m and a labourer at Smith & McLean Galvanisers (merchants, manufacturers, galvanizers, steel and iron plate and sheet rollers). Elizabeth is now 26y 11m old and they have four children; Mary Ann (7y) and Dorothea (5y 11m) are both scholars, but John (4y 1m) and Charles (1y 2m) are too young to be at school. Since this is the last census available to us for some time, the family’s story is based on the births of their children and that is where I turn to now

Death of John McGowan 14 Sep 1948

John McGowan died 14 Sep 1948 at Southern General Hospital, Glasgow.

Elizabeth lived for another seventeen years before dying, aged 70, on 22 Dec 1965.

Death of Elizabeth Chrystal McGowan or Neil died 22 Dec 1965

Death of Elizabeth Chrystal McGowan or Neil died 22 Dec 1965

Birth of Susan Logan Neil b 12 Oct 1897

Baptism of Susan Logan Neil 19 Oct 1897

Susan Logan Neil at the 1901 Census – 21 Salisbury Street, Tradeston, Glasgow

Name	Rel	Cond	Sex	Age	Occupation	Status	Where Born
John Neil	Head	M	M	39	Coal Merchant's Labourer	Worker	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Mary A Neil	Wife	M	F	39			Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Mary Neil	Daughter	S	F	19	Tobacco Spinner	Worker	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Sarah Neil	Daughter	S	F	17	Handkerchief Hemmer	Worker	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Agnes Neil	Daughter	S	F	13	Scholar		Glasgow, Lanarkshire
John Neil	Son	S	M	10	Scholar		Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Timothy Neil	Son	S	M	8	Scholar		Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Lizzie Neil	Daughter	S	F	6			Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Susan Neil	Daughter	S	F	3			Glasgow, Lanarkshire
Charles Neil	Son	S	M	1			Glasgow, Lanarkshire

1901 Census Return for 21 Salisbury Street, Tradeston, Glasgow. (Scotland’s People 1901 Census England, Wales & Scotland Census: NEIL, JOHN (Census 644/12 16/ 3) Page 3 of 30)

At this census the family are living at 21 Salisbury Street, Glasgow. John is now a 39-year-old coal-merchant’s labourer. Mary Anne, his wife, is also aged 39. Mary Anne is back with the family, and she is described as a tobacco spinner. Other children in the household are Mary Ann, aged 19 and a tobacco spinner, Sarah, aged 17 a handkerchief hemmer, Agnes (13) and John (10) and Timothy ( 8) are all scholars leaving Elizabeth (6), Susan, herself, aged 3, and the baby of the family, Charles aged 1.

This census saw John Neil’s family at its most complete; by the next census only the youngest two children remained, and they and their parents lived as boarders in the household of Alex Kemp, a blacksmith.

Susan Logan Neil at the 1911 Census -6 Eglinton Lane, Gorbals, Glasgow

Rooms	Name	Persons	Rel	Sex	Age	Cond	Years	Chd B	Chd L	Occupation	Where Born
2	Alex Kemp	7	Head	M	47	M				Blacksmith	Abernethy, Perthshire
	Margaret Kemp		Wife	F	28	M	4	3	1		Glasgow, Lanarkshire
	Isabella Kemp		Daughter	F	1	S					Glasgow, Lanarkshire
	John Neill		Boarder	M	48	M				Coal Carrier	Ayr, Ayrshire
	Mary Anne Neill		Boarder	F	40	M	22	10	8		Glasgow, Lanarkshire
	Susan Neill		Boarder	F	13	S				School	Glasgow, Lanarkshire
	Charles Neill		Boarder	M	12	S				School	Glasgow, Lanarkshire

1911 Census Return for 6 Eglinton Lane, Gorbals, Glasgow, (Scotland’s People 1911 Census England, Wales & Scotland Census: 1911 NEILL, JOHN (Census 644/17 22/ 21) Page 21 of 36)

At this census Susan’s parents, John and May Ann Neill, are living with their youngest two children as boarders in the household of Alen Kemp, a 47-year-old blacksmith and his wife and their 1-year-old daughter, Isabella. John is now a 48-year-old coal carrier and his wife, Mary Anne, is aged 40. Susan lives with them, aged 13 and her younger brother, Charles is also in the household. Both the children are scholars. There had been another child born after Charles and she was names Isabella. Isabella was born in 1901 but died in 1908, aged 7. Our next record of Susan is six years later when she married John Connor; she was 19-years-old.

Marriage of Susan Logan Neil and John Connor 29 Sep 1917 at St John’s Chapel, Portugal Street, Glasgow

Here we see that John is still on active duty and that he is a driver in the Royal Field Artillery and Susan was a munitions worker. She lives at 10 Eglinton Lane and both of her parents are deceased. John is not given a “usual residence” as he is on active service; the Great War had another year to run before peace came on 11 Nov 1918. We find the couple at the following census in 1921 when they are living at 4 Surrey Street, Gorbals.

John Connor’s Family